Reliability

[cdotjdot]

In your guys' personal experiences which company makes the most reliable injection molding machine as far as durability,quality of construction,control and customer service

[cdotjdot]

And which is the worst

[rickbatey]

1-Don't think I've EVER worked on a bad Japanese built IMM. From Toschiba, Niigata, Toyo, Nissie, and JSW. Work horses as well though the older versions of Toschiba's would leak on the end cap if you used max injection psi all the time. 2-Engel plus their robots. Bullet proof and easy to trouble shoot. 3-KM though not crazy about their robots. The robots run but more exotic programs can be hard to write. 4-NPM, MIR, Sandretto. If I didn't list if I haven't ran it more than likely. Now I didn't ask what type press (all elec., hybrid, packaging or automotive) or market as that may change my mind off several of these brands. Also how close is sales, technician and parts? Got to weight that stuff as well.
Hope this helped. Rick.

[cdotjdot]

Thanks Rick have you worked with many milacron or demag machines? If so.. Any opinion on either

[rickbatey]

I think one place had some large tonnage Demags, not impressed with them. Another issue was with purging you had to be careful or you could get purge down into the lock nuts that closed on tie bars for tonnage. I've worked on lots of Milacrons and a Ferromatic one. The Ferromatic one is old but runs pretty solid. I've worked on ONE Milacron that I liked. It was an 880t that I mounted a Sepro robot on. It was the first I saw with mold purge which can be important with some tools. It was stable and dependable but grease gets everywhere plus at times you had to clean the grease off the clamp transducer to get good readings!? It was a used press that someone else had bought but we managed to run back molded parts in the press when the two Engel tie bar-less were over capacity. I'm not fond of the controller and manual push button arrangement. Older ones have been my most despised brand of IMM in my career.
Rick.

[brentb]

Worked in 2 places where they had many Cinci toggles (Vistas) they required almost constant repair/maint. Yes, Toshiba has endcap issues, but is a good reliable press. I hate to sound like I agree with "Rick the Reb", but Engel to me, can't beat for being reliable and precise.

Oh, the Vistas all ran large cavity closure molds at 5 second cycles 24/7. Had Engels running closures at 8 second cycles 24/7 and zero issues!

KOM

brent

[moldptc]

Get Engle...best you can buy in my opinnion or Kraus Maffie

[Airwinghma]

I like the Krauss Maffei controller but the machine mechanics are complicated, (clamping system) and the component placement is to reduce size and not ease of access. The Japanese machines are nice and are repeatable and reliable, Not a fan of Italian machines (POS) and I find american machines to be good as well. In my 20+ years working in the plastics industries I have Processed,maintained and managed in facilities that ran a myriad of different machines and models. Cincinnati Milacron Vista, Vista sentry's, extreme NT controllers, Krauss Maffei B and C models, Netstal Synergy & HP, and Husky X,G and H-line.

My choice of machine is Husky whether you run X,G or the H-line machines they meet your durability,quality of construction,control and customer service criteria.


Scott

[rickbatey]

Scott-you obviously don't work in automotive with a Husky large too age Quad-lock or you'd despise them to no end!! I worked on early model Husky with Texas Instruments controllers; at that time a great machine but still either a thin wall or stack mold machine. Not to mention you can't run a background program in the robot!? What a huge POS.
Engel is better prices than KM but the CC200 plus robot is the bomb! Now I want to play with the new CC300 controller!
Rick the Reb!!

[cdotjdot]

Thanks for your input guys I appreciate how about in the 1500-4000 ton range for off-road-automotive parts ... What's your opinions

[brentb]

Bad part of Engels is that one tends to forget their repair skills." Maytag" of injection presses!

KOM

brent

[Airwinghma]

Rick I've actually worked in the automotive industry with Collins and Aikman as they went under, Not my fault, we made Durango parts. We had 95% HPM large tonnage 600-1250, a Sandretto 3000 and a Cinncinati 3500, Loved the 3500 had a 240 oz barrel, if I remember right. Used that shot weight when I called for a purge sample and received 3, 55 lb bags that lasted for months.

I have been to the Detroit Husky facility for training many moons ago and they had a large 6500 on the floor, massive with six tie bars. My husky experience is with the 800 and below tonnage in PET Preform molding and closures, the first company I was with in injection molding (10 years) had no machines over 300 tons, man when I saw the 3500 ton unit I just stared at it.

Never messed with an Engel how does it stack up against the KM?

BTW we have an OLD Arburg here that we age working towards retiring, maybe it can go to their museum. Replaced with a New to us Demag that has been a bit of a pain in the ass, made in Germany for Mexico, had to purchase a language package along with other changes. I will be putting in the PO for a english manual today, luckily the prints are in English and German.

Scott

[cdotjdot]

What year and size demag did you aquire Scott?

[rickbatey]

First off, my recommendation for press brands based on tonnage or technology won't change! An Engel can ruin you due to their trouble free running and precision. If your getting a new press you really can't beat a CC200. Any machine sequence you need or imagine is a few strokes away.
Scott-the only thing I consider possibly better on a KM versus an Engel is the cores. On a KM cores off are ignored as long as there aren't signals for IN and OUT. Engel requires signal jumpers in the mold box for cores not used. The sequence is a little clunky to write something exotic or special on a KM; Engel is much easier even when doing sliding blade core 2K work.
All- if you get your hands on a tie bar-less press from little to 600t; you'll NEVER go back willingly!!
Rick n

[brentb]

yes toTL

KOM

brent

[Airwinghma]

Greetings;

We have a 2003 Ergotech 80-430Extra with the NC4 controller

Scott

[Josue]

I like the Sodicks,,

so far we have sodick hydraulic and Sumitomos All electric ,,, believe or not, the maintenance required for the Sodick was minimun, we had this machine for 15 years, working as should be, now we have some oil leaks,,, but still working good,,

but with Sumitomos electrics we experience any kind of issues, electrical, mechanicals,, also are good machines, but I prefere sodick,, by the way there are not some many companys using Sodicks i think..



regards