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Thread: New Machine Brand Decision? Help me choose!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    3

    New Machine Brand Decision? Help me choose!

    New to injection molding. Will be buying one of the following machines or similar. These are all new machines (2020). Which brand should I choose and why? We will be doing large parts; shots as high as 25lbs likely. Any other considerations or concerns? Are these quotes reasonable or do they seem high? Thanks!!!!!


    Engle
    duo 35050/1250 WPX US
    1250 Ton
    30 lbs Shot Size
    $1,140,400
    AND
    Engel Viper 60 linear Robot
    $104,000

    óóóóóó-
    Total Installed / Shipped
    $1.5M

    OR

    Wittman / Battenfeld
    MacroPower 1600 / 33000
    1600 Ton
    47 lbs Shot Size
    $1,190,270
    AND
    W843PRO Linear Robot
    $61,260

    ----------------
    Total Installed / Shipped
    $1.25M

    OR

    Nissei FVX1300-III - 1100L
    1440 Ton
    30 lbs Shot Size
    (no Robot on this quote)

    ----------------
    Total Installed / Shipped
    $1.1M

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    589

    Re: New Machine Brand Decision? Help me choose!

    All these are fantastic brands. The other important aspect to consider is the sales and service in your geographical area. I won't mention any names but there is a real good machine manufacturer who has almost no presence on the West coast of the US. Someone who has their machine was complaining to me that the service is terrible. But on the east coast, you will find that machines at every other molder and that have great service.

    Also look at how much precision you need on your parts. If you are looking to mold, for example, buckets, precision is not that critical compared to say you are molding food container with lids on them.

    All the best
    Suhas

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    3

    Re: New Machine Brand Decision? Help me choose!

    Thanks. So far Nissei seems to have the best local support. It helps they would build the machine in Texas as well. Precision is important since we may be using Mucell process. Will need to be able to do precise coreback. Any other feedback, if sales support was equal, which machine would you choose? Thanks!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    20

    Re: New Machine Brand Decision? Help me choose!

    For technical support, Nissei has been the better of the three, specifically for support in Texas. Although we had older 2 shot machines from Engle and Nissei they both had similar issues with the programs. Engle had sent several techs in and each visits we needed to buy new a different new card and the problem was never resolved. Nissei has been to the shop twice, one trip for each machine and the problem was corrected during each visit. In addition, they were very supportive with providing troubleshooting training as they went through the process. Battenfeld never made the cut, previous history for technical support in Texas was not very good and at that shop there was 16 Battenfelds. The Hytan brand is making a good impression with thier 1,000 ton plus machines if you want to throw in another brand, (Hytan investment cost is lower.)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Lincoln, NE
    Posts
    20

    Re: New Machine Brand Decision? Help me choose!

    Out of curiosity, you say you will be making parts that weigh 25 lbs if I am reading your email right, and then the molding machine sizes are between 1250 to 1600 Tons. What size barrels/injection units did you quote? Looking at this with experience I ran in automotive door panels and instrument panels that were 7 to 9 lb shots and due to the tool size for these we used 3,000 ton presses with 135 mm screws (Engels) Just curious if all of these things were taken into account.
    Robert

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Upstate of South Carolina
    Posts
    671

    Re: New Machine Brand Decision? Help me choose!

    If you’re looking at Mucell, Engel was one of the first to assist with that technology from the start. Also, with that process you can run larger shot weights with lower clamp forces. I don’t like Battenfeld machines. The Wittmann robots are good if you know what options and joints to purchase. Nissie is a good machine but with this process it’s an unknown. If you get it, look for a Sepro robot. They do linear/gantry units as well as six-axis ones. But press must have robot interface installed when purchased. I’d opt for Engel machine and robot. Most flexible and seamless integration. But if they have less service presence in your area than here; that’s a problem. Only real Engel issues I’ve seen were from HIGHLY customized machines with loads of cores and 2K, plus tiebar pullers. We got them corrected as most issues were software driven and not hardware. We have several now running 2K insert over-molding with rotary platters and magnets. Biggest issue was rotary table and press built in China. But it’s fixed now. Just my plugged nickel.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    3

    Re: New Machine Brand Decision? Help me choose!

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertPHale View Post
    Out of curiosity, you say you will be making parts that weigh 25 lbs if I am reading your email right, and then the molding machine sizes are between 1250 to 1600 Tons. What size barrels/injection units did you quote? Looking at this with experience I ran in automotive door panels and instrument panels that were 7 to 9 lb shots and due to the tool size for these we used 3,000 ton presses with 135 mm screws (Engels) Just curious if all of these things were taken into account.
    Robert
    Quote Originally Posted by rickbatey View Post
    If youíre looking at Mucell, Engel was one of the first to assist with that technology from the start. Also, with that process you can run larger shot weights with lower clamp forces. I donít like Battenfeld machines. The Wittmann robots are good if you know what options and joints to purchase. Nissie is a good machine but with this process itís an unknown. If you get it, look for a Sepro robot. They do linear/gantry units as well as six-axis ones. But press must have robot interface installed when purchased. Iíd opt for Engel machine and robot. Most flexible and seamless integration. But if they have less service presence in your area than here; thatís a problem. Only real Engel issues Iíve seen were from HIGHLY customized machines with loads of cores and 2K, plus tiebar pullers. We got them corrected as most issues were software driven and not hardware. We have several now running 2K insert over-molding with rotary platters and magnets. Biggest issue was rotary table and press built in China. But itís fixed now. Just my plugged nickel.
    Thanks for the information. We will be using the full 25lbs shot size, I believe the injection pressure is north of 20,000 PSI. Our parts are like 1/8Ē thick. May actually scrap our Mucell plans and just use chemical blowing agent. So much less expensive and also seems like CBA can be reliably simulated now? Leaning towards Nissei machine right now, service and parts are closer. Machines are built out of Texas. They quoted me on a Harmo Robot. Any experience with that Brand? What in particular makes Sepro robots preferred? Thanks!

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