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Thread: which machine to buy for production of precise parts

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    3

    which machine to buy for production of precise parts

    Dear all,
    I am new on this forum.
    We are a small company producing electronic security products.
    We have some molds in our pocession. We do not have a plastic injection machine.
    Our current plastic products are being produced now by a subcontractor.
    I am thinking of buying a plastics injection machine myself.

    In a fire detector there is a detecion chamber. This is made of black plastic. It consist of a kind of labyrinth to avoid light coming in. Smoke particles reflect the licht of an led to make fire detection.
    De production of such a detection has to be each time exactly the same. This to avoid false alarms due to light refections.

    A fire detector is made of 5 plastic parts.
    - detector base
    - back of detector
    - pcb cover
    - detection chamber,
    - white housing

    I will need 10000 pieces up to 50000 pieces a year of each part.

    each part does not weigh more then lets say 25 grams.

    My other security housing I would like to be able to make with the machine weighs 243 grams. For this I ony need 3000 parts a year.

    I would have liked to buy a machine in the range of 14000 euro.
    I found on alibaba UP128, 130 ton, but maximum shot 230 grams for 13800 dollar.

    Can you help me with the following :
    - Should I look for a Chinese machine or a second hand machine like Arburg or Battenfeld or Engel or Kraus Maffei or Sandretto or Netstal. These machines I find are between 15 and 20 years old and the cost is almost as high as a new Chinese machine.
    - Will i be able to make repetitive high quality plastic detection chamers with such a Chinese machine ?
    - What other kind of Chinese machines would you suggest ?
    - In worse case I will make 250 000 plastic parts in a year. If it takes 20 seconds per part (I do not know how fast this goes), the machine will run only 170 days in a year. Or at the start it will only run 30 days in a year.
    - I will take the molds that are currently with my subcontractor and use them on my own machine. I have no experience in injection molding. What is your idea : just continue with your subcontractor or you can realy do this yourself. (We are technical people.) I am sure the molds are good, as my subcontractor has made my products in it.

    Thanks !

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    85

    Re: which machine to buy for production of precise parts

    Hi,

    generally:
    No second hand - if yes, than not more than 5-9 years old with proper maintenance history.
    No chinese second hand - never.

    I think You should have count your business case verywell. Than decide what is better make/buy.
    With old secondhand You risk that You will more repair than produce (for 10year and older machine, prepare 10.000eur/year for maintenance and repairs).

    Invest in a good machine with lower profit but still stay on a safe side.
    Than I think You donīt make a mistake with any good machine producer.

    J

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    3

    Re: which machine to buy for production of precise parts

    Hi, Thanks for your reply !

    And what about a brand new Chinese machine, like UP128 ?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Belle Vernon, PA
    Posts
    126

    Re: which machine to buy for production of precise parts

    To be honest, I would source your parts from a molder. Buying a machine used (blindly) and not knowing the technicals of molding will cost well more than just the machine cost.
    If you're dead-set on doing it yourself, look for good name brand machines. We've been replacing our older machines with newer Nissei machines. My suggestion is to look at Van Dorn machines. They're a dime a dozen, parts are cheap, and they're easy to work on. Arburg (from experience) is way expensive for parts if you need to fix things. We have a 520c that we bought new in 2004 and we've spent more on parts in the last few years.

    Just my $.02.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    3

    Re: which machine to buy for production of precise parts

    It's great to hear an experience person. Thanks for this reply.
    I did not realy have the idea to buy old second hand machines.

    The Chinese machine, typenumber UP128, 130 ton, costs new price 13800 dollar. No one on this forum says : maybe you should give it a try ?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    85

    Re: which machine to buy for production of precise parts

    So if you have a spare money, maybe "you should give it a try" and tell us how it was.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    3

    Re: which machine to buy for production of precise parts

    FANUC.

    Even if it's used, we have multiple 150 ton roboshots, some of them are 16 years old, running 24/7 and the repair cost is almost 0. I can count on one hand how many times we called the service in the last 10 years.
    The barrel and the screw must be in good condition though.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    114

    Re: which machine to buy for production of precise parts

    hi Sr
    I think your ROI its not so good to decide to buy a new machine, will be a lost for you $,, do you already calculate the part cost now molding by your self ? only this products at very low utilization ? I think you will not recover soon the investment , you most consider material cost, labor cost, expenses, machine depreciation ,, quality equipment to review so small parts , etc..
    my suggestion based on your comments its to follow with your subcontractor at list you have a solid reason of cost vs your own cost

    best regards

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