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View Full Version : Splay with Polycarbonate, is it wet or barrel too big?



Joel JS
20th January 2017, 03:24 PM
Hello to all,

I am having difficulty on understanding root cause of splay with a Polycarbonate job. (machine is 1000 tons, recommended heat profile 510 to 550 in the rear, 550 to 590 front.... using 20% of the machine shot capacity)

Job would start up after purging and would be pressure limited and only fill 95% of the part. As the material heated up, viscosity lowered, I was able to fill out the part and run good parts, for a limited time. I could make about 10 good parts, (with about 90 seconds cycle time.)

Then splay would appear on the bottom of the part, and at this time the material flowed even easier. As it ran the next few shots the splay would get a little worse, always at the bottom of the part, and the material continued to flow easier, so much so that I would stick the part in the mold if not careful. The splay was getting worse and making bad parts.

I would stop the press, purge out the machine, and restart. The exact same sequence of events occurred ...... pressure limited short parts, then 10 or 12 good parts....... then splay would start with increased "flow-ability" of material.

Since we were only using 20% of the barrel shot capacity, and was able to make good parts I believed I was fighting a material residence issue. I was running 550F in the rear, and 575F in the front. I lowered the rear barrel heats to 530, allowed to cool, and purged again.

Restarted, and I got the exact same results. Sample was stopped.

Afterwards we found the dryer air cone had fallen out of place, so wondering if wet material was the culprit? I kick myself for not checking the moisture content, but at the time thought I was fighting a material residence issue.

(Job does have a hot manifold, it appeared to be working fine. No external signs of any issues.)

So, my question is ....... was I fighting wet material, or is the material residence time too long? We don't have a lot of machine options and are wondering if it is worth another try in the same machine.

Thx - Joel

Suhas
21st January 2017, 03:28 PM
Joel,
Since you were getting the 10 acceptable parts or so, I do not believe it is a material moisture problem. But then if it was a residence time issue, you should have got it within 5 shots if you say that you are using about 20%.
When you purge the machine, are you purging through the manifold? Or just the machine nozzle?
Suhas

rickbatey
22nd January 2017, 09:58 PM
I feel your issue is strictly residence time related. Drop heats from center of the unit toward the rear about 5-10*F each zone. I'd do this after you start it and monitor the extruded pressure. I wouldn't want to see it any higher than 1300-1800 psi. Any more and you're too cold.
The resin, is it FR or UV stable? That can create such issues as well.
Rick.

Joel JS
24th January 2017, 09:29 PM
Joel,
Since you were getting the 10 acceptable parts or so, I do not believe it is a material moisture problem. But then if it was a residence time issue, you should have got it within 5 shots if you say that you are using about 20%.
When you purge the machine, are you purging through the manifold? Or just the machine nozzle?
Suhas

I purged through both the machine and the manifold..... because it has areas that may stick in mold if not careful.
Thx Suhas for your reply - Joel S

Joel JS
24th January 2017, 09:37 PM
I feel your issue is strictly residence time related. Drop heats from center of the unit toward the rear about 5-10*F each zone. I'd do this after you start it and monitor the extruded pressure. I wouldn't want to see it any higher than 1300-1800 psi. Any more and you're too cold.
The resin, is it FR or UV stable? That can create such issues as well.
Rick.

Rick, The material has a flame retardant as well as a UV stabilizer, (you have seen this kind of scenario before with such?)......I did drop my rear zones to 530, mid zones to 550, front zones kept at 575 as I was psi limited. I may be able to go another 10 or 20 degrees colder to your point. Thx for your reply!
Joel S

rickbatey
24th January 2017, 10:19 PM
Joel I ran a gas pump lens and a electrical enclosure for fluorescent lighting ballast. Both were FR and the clear for the gas pumps was UV as well. The long residence time consumes the additives or they simply degrade due to the tim in the barrel. Once that happens you don't get good partsyears ago. I'd creep the rear settings down as well as toward the center of the barrel but leave the front hot enough to k reduce the pressure limited process parameters. The short residence time from front zone to mold will help with the degradation and defects.
Yeah that dog has bitten me once years ago!
Rick.

Joel JS
26th January 2017, 02:49 PM
Joel I ran a gas pump lens and a electrical enclosure for fluorescent lighting ballast. Both were FR and the clear for the gas pumps was UV as well. The long residence time consumes the additives or they simply degrade due to the tim in the barrel. Once that happens you don't get good partsyears ago. I'd creep the rear settings down as well as toward the center of the barrel but leave the front hot enough to k reduce the pressure limited process parameters. The short residence time from front zone to mold will help with the degradation and defects.
Yeah that dog has bitten me once years ago!
Rick.

That's good to know........thx for your reply! - Joel

jmullan
11th February 2017, 04:55 PM
the mold could be overheating as well. I've experienced in the past with a polycarbonate based material would run good for about 5-10 shots and then start splaying terribly. We had to modify the tool for better cooling.

Take some temperature reads of the tool before and then after you start getting splay.

chrisprocess
6th March 2017, 10:33 PM
Inadequate turbulent flow in mold, maybe not enough cooling lines. Increased cooling time may help.

Residence time may be too long and/or Shear heat during screw recovery could contribute to higher melt temp, lowering your viscosity you noted when ramping to automatic.
(I once saw cycle times so quick 3- 4 seconds that the barrel heats were actually used to COOL the material. Screw recovery needed to be so fast that shear was contributing to all the heating.)

If possible, obtain a melt temp at 'start-up' and melt temp in 'automatic' and note any difference. Maybe if you match the melt temp at your start-up it could give you your desired flow/viscosity.