First Machine Brand?

[Mad_Scientist]

Hey Folks.

I am only familiar with Old negribossi, and new Haitian machines. The haitians actually are not bad machines imo, but I dont really have anything to compare them do. I am looking to start my own company and I'm interested in picking up a used (approx.) 300 ton machine. Right now Im eyeing a milacron for 67k. I have also come across i few demags, which I hear are great. Is there any particular brand that you folks suggest over others? I prefer machines that have SOME usa made content, but I dont know if there is any.. (maybe borsch?)

anyways, just looking to hear your thoughts, and maybe suggestions of brands to stay away from. Not really looking for super efficient high end machines, just something to get the doors open and revenue flowing.

Thanks!

JC

[rickbatey]

I have loved Engel, plus most any Japanese brand of injection molding machine I've ever worked on. No experience with anything new that isn't Engel or KM. I don't like Milacron or Battenfeld machines. Never been impressed with them.
The hard part will be getting a solid used press with no major issues. Good luck.
Rick.

[Flash]

I try to stay away from Arburg,although they are a good machine,I found you can only get parts from them for the most part. If they are in stock,great. If not,prepare to wait several weeks or months to get part from Germany. I also would stay away from Battenfeld,especially if they have a servo driver for the pump. I have had good luck with a Toyo.

[pjhall]

I've been working with Niigata all electrics for a few years now and like them. Husky electric /hydraulic hybrids are nice, but pricy!!

[JayDub]

The hard part will be getting a solid used press with no major issues. Good luck.
Rick.

Agreeing with this, I'd say look for a brand that has a locally-based service tech. Paying $100-plus an hour while the tech is on site is one thing, but they'll charge nearly the same rate for travel time, after you've bought their plane ticket & paid for a hotel and meals. Also be careful of brands like Demag where the name was sold a few years ago - if your machine was built by the company that no longer owns the brand, service and spare parts might be problematic.

[Mad_Scientist]

Agreeing with this, I'd say look for a brand that has a locally-based service tech. Paying $100-plus an hour while the tech is on site is one thing, but they'll charge nearly the same rate for travel time, after you've bought their plane ticket & paid for a hotel and meals. Also be careful of brands like Demag where the name was sold a few years ago - if your machine was built by the company that no longer owns the brand, service and spare parts might be problematic.

Thanks for the advice everyone. Jay, i read good things about Sumitomo (owners of Demag/Vandorn) Do you know of any reason to stay away from them? A few of my local contacts use Sumitomo/Demag machines and love them.

So far I think Ive come to the conclusion new lease is going to be the best case way to go... unless i find a really good used machine. the benefit of not having to pay for warranty work may be a good thing for a new company.

Honestly, I like Engels machines.. I tend to lean towards that higher end and scientific molding, but I have not heard good things about the company and support. Haitian support has been great for us. But still not sure I want to use one as my primary machine. Though, I did have to call Haitian last night for tech help on one and when I called one of the the owners of Haitian answered and put me through to the right person (after hours I might add)

Does anyone know if any machines other than milacron are built in the states?

[JayDub]

Jay, i read good things about Sumitomo (owners of Demag/Vandorn) Do you know of any reason to stay away from them? A few of my local contacts use Sumitomo/Demag machines and love them.




I haven't worked on a new Sumitomo/Demag, but I have worked on a couple of old Sumitomo's and can't fault them. My concern was if you bought an older Mannesman-built Demag you might have a hard time getting parts or service (or you might not, it's just something to consider). There could be other brands in the same situation, Demag is just one I'm familiar with.

[rickbatey]

Engel builds all of their IMM's in Austria, Korea or China I believe. I've never had issues with Engel as I know many of the local tech's and can get to the bottom of an issue over the phone. But if I started my own shop, I would take much time deciding on brand. I love their machines and robots as the best package!!
I don't think anyone other than Milacron builds in the US. But realize that their Roboshot is actually a Fanuc built machine. Again I love every Japanese brand IMM I've ever worked on. Never worked on electric Niigata but loved some 2002 hydraulic 300t's. I loved JSW's and Toschiba's as well.
Rick.

[Mad_Scientist]

The grant that im working on is one of those "american jobs" things and I feel its appropriate to get a US machine to start with. if milacron si the only option then i have no problem starting there.. truly though, I will most likely end up with arburgs for my high end work.

[iautry1973]

I have worked with older hydraulic Engels and they aren't bad. I have worked with a lot of newer electric Arburgs. Liked them a lot and service was great. I have worked with Sumitomo machines and they are good, but service is a train wreck. Previous company I tried to get an upgrade to allow us to hook up a robot. 23k later we were told that it won't work and we should just but a new machine. Current employer has all electric Sumitomos. Horrendous service and incompetence. Also empty promises and rudely treated. We are now looking at replacing all the machines earlier than planned with a different brand.