moldingppm
1st November 2013, 04:04 PM
I know this is a question that's brought up more often than not. I wanted to see how everyone feels about these.
Personally,
All of my machines are hydraulic. I've had so many issues with my machines relating to hydraulics in the last 2 years, out of 8 machines, every.single.one. has been down because of a hydraulic failure.
I'm currently running a part (it's a washer) out of a 16 cavity mold, cold runner, sub gated. We run a little over 3.4 million pieces per year just of this part (we also do 2 or 3 other sizes, annual volumes vary on those). I'm having a hell of a time making a 55,000 - 100,000 piece per week minimum delivery. Again, because of hydraulic failures while running this mold (1 machine destroyed clamping piston, 1 machine blew a heat exchanger, and now another has a few leaks where it's running now).
I've been looking into some new machinery. Being a small family business (with a hand full of jobs that we run, thanks outsourcing :mad:) I'm looking to pickup a new machine for production of this part. I've had talks with Arburg and Milacron, of course all they care about is making the biggest commission. So my questions/assumptions are as follows;
Hydraulic (straight Ram)-
Pros:
Cheapest
Seals are cheap and usually easy to find
Cons:
Anything bigger than seals can be over $5,000 easily
Sometimes leaks are a B**ch to find, causing a messy shop
Tough to control
Hybrid (don't know a lot about these)-
Pros:
Obviously median in expense
Less electric used
Cons:
Everything except clamp and dosing is still hydraulic
Electric -
Pros:
Servos to never leak oil
Shot size can be controlled the best for those tricky parts.
Faster cycle times
Tolerances can be held the best in this machine
Cons:
Pricey (almost double what I was quoted for a fully hydraulic)
Servos can be expensive (I'm guessing)
Availability can be tough
As for manufacturers, I've looked at Arburg, Milacron, and Nissei.
I'd be looking in priority: Arburg (already know the Selogica controllers, like the quality)> Nissei (I like the new Nex-III machines, controllers are nice and the machine all around looks good)> Milacron Roboshot (Good track record, Faunic makes some nice controls, I just don't like the looks of them very much)... I'm sure Rick will be putting his input on Engel machines, feel free!
Can anyone add to this?
I feel my other problem is running a 15 year old (~50 million pieces produced or 3.2 million shots) 16 cavity, cold runner, sub gated mold. Would I be better off with a hot runner setup? It's hella pricey for a 16 cavity including the valve gate controller and temp controllers. But would I see a better yield by going fully electric with a hot runner? If I can justify the price, I would go for it and save my ass, as well as my customers.
Sorry for the multiple questions, but I'm looking for some good advice.
Personally,
All of my machines are hydraulic. I've had so many issues with my machines relating to hydraulics in the last 2 years, out of 8 machines, every.single.one. has been down because of a hydraulic failure.
I'm currently running a part (it's a washer) out of a 16 cavity mold, cold runner, sub gated. We run a little over 3.4 million pieces per year just of this part (we also do 2 or 3 other sizes, annual volumes vary on those). I'm having a hell of a time making a 55,000 - 100,000 piece per week minimum delivery. Again, because of hydraulic failures while running this mold (1 machine destroyed clamping piston, 1 machine blew a heat exchanger, and now another has a few leaks where it's running now).
I've been looking into some new machinery. Being a small family business (with a hand full of jobs that we run, thanks outsourcing :mad:) I'm looking to pickup a new machine for production of this part. I've had talks with Arburg and Milacron, of course all they care about is making the biggest commission. So my questions/assumptions are as follows;
Hydraulic (straight Ram)-
Pros:
Cheapest
Seals are cheap and usually easy to find
Cons:
Anything bigger than seals can be over $5,000 easily
Sometimes leaks are a B**ch to find, causing a messy shop
Tough to control
Hybrid (don't know a lot about these)-
Pros:
Obviously median in expense
Less electric used
Cons:
Everything except clamp and dosing is still hydraulic
Electric -
Pros:
Servos to never leak oil
Shot size can be controlled the best for those tricky parts.
Faster cycle times
Tolerances can be held the best in this machine
Cons:
Pricey (almost double what I was quoted for a fully hydraulic)
Servos can be expensive (I'm guessing)
Availability can be tough
As for manufacturers, I've looked at Arburg, Milacron, and Nissei.
I'd be looking in priority: Arburg (already know the Selogica controllers, like the quality)> Nissei (I like the new Nex-III machines, controllers are nice and the machine all around looks good)> Milacron Roboshot (Good track record, Faunic makes some nice controls, I just don't like the looks of them very much)... I'm sure Rick will be putting his input on Engel machines, feel free!
Can anyone add to this?
I feel my other problem is running a 15 year old (~50 million pieces produced or 3.2 million shots) 16 cavity, cold runner, sub gated mold. Would I be better off with a hot runner setup? It's hella pricey for a 16 cavity including the valve gate controller and temp controllers. But would I see a better yield by going fully electric with a hot runner? If I can justify the price, I would go for it and save my ass, as well as my customers.
Sorry for the multiple questions, but I'm looking for some good advice.